Ha-OIII color algor...
 
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Ha-OIII color algorithm?  

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(@ahbok)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
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August 16, 2019 18:05  

I’m really enjoying using APP with my Optolong L-eNhance filter and my ASI071MC Pro OSC. I’ve been able to create a mono lum and Ha/OIII extracts and combine them. My question re: the Ha-OIII color algorithm. Does this do the same as manually extracting, registering and combing the lum, Ha and OIII? It appears to do this but is much easier. If not, what is the purpose of the Ha-OIII color algorithm?

This topic was modified 1 month ago by Vincent Groenewold - Moderator

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(@vincent-mod)
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August 16, 2019 19:35  

In the 0-tab where you select the Ha-OIII algorithm, this indeed takes out either the Ha or OIII data automatically which you then register, normalize and integrate. When done with one, you go back to the 0-tab, select the other and APP wil ask to re-normalize the subs and goes on to make the other integration. You then combine the integrations yourself.


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(@ahbok)
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August 17, 2019 02:40  

Yes. I did this and extracted both Ha and OIII and successfully combined them along with a mono lum. My question is about the Ha-OIII color algorithm. I’m curious about what it is for. When I use this algorithm it appears to give me a composite of Ha and OIII that I can then separate into channels in the combine tool in order to map them to different colors. Is this correct or is this algorithm for another purpose?


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(@vincent-mod)
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August 17, 2019 10:41  

Ahh I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. So the color algorithm gives an RGB output as-is recorded by the sensor, not separated and processed as one. You can indeed adjust them later, but the "extract Ha" or "extract OIII" are there to get the Ha and OIII data out straight away and giving you more control on post-processing (you can then adjust these channels to your liking completely before combining). The "mono" is meant to give you a "luminance" result.

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by Vincent Groenewold - Moderator

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(@ahbok)
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August 17, 2019 11:32  

Vincent—Thank you very much. This completely answers my question. APP is great for us OSC users!


(@vincent-mod)
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August 17, 2019 11:37  

I agree! 🙂


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(@jw_duijndamhetnet-nl)
Red Giant Customer
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Posts: 84
August 17, 2019 13:10  

@vincent-mod

 

Hi Vincent and Ahbok,

 

May I ask an additional question? What is the difference between the Hydrogen Alpha algorithm and the HA O3 extract HA?

Also what would be the difference between O3 algorithm an the HA O3 extract O3?

Is it a complete other algorithm (for example O3 an the HA O3 extract O3). Ore is it the same with a other name?

 

Hope you can give us a bit more insight?

 

Clear skies Jan-Willem

This post was modified 1 month ago by Jan-Willem

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(@vincent-mod)
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August 17, 2019 13:54  

Hi Jan-Willem,

I think they are the same algorithm, not 100% sure but I can't think of why it wouldn't be really. In all cases APP gets the RGB data from an OSC sensor presented and it doesn't really matter what filter was used. It also doesn't know, which is why you manually select it. I think it's just a simpler way for users to pick the right one, it would confuse people if we only had the "OIII, extract Ha" as the only option to extract Ha.


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(@jw_duijndamhetnet-nl)
Red Giant Customer
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August 17, 2019 15:11  

@vincent-mod

Hi Vincent,

 

Thanks, so if I understand correctly (for example) the O3 algorithm and the HA OIII extract O3 are both the same? It is only for "user friendly" use that the "extract" algorithm was made?

 

If so couldn't it be possible to make a new "algorithm" that would automatically makes to stacks? 1 of Ha and 1 of O3? 

 

Clear skies Jan-Willem


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(@vincent-mod)
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August 17, 2019 15:50  

I *think* so. 🙂 I'm not 100% sure, so for that I'll tag @mabula-admin.


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(@jw_duijndamhetnet-nl)
Red Giant Customer
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Posts: 84
August 17, 2019 16:23  

@vincent-mod, @mabula-admin

 

Hi Vincent,

 

Thanks again, i hope Mabula can give us a bit more insight how this algarithm work and if it would be possible to make an extra algortihm that could make an HA and O3 integration in one session.

 

Cheers Jan-Willem


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(@annehouw)
Main Sequence Star Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 32
August 19, 2019 23:07  

Hi All,

 

I agree with the "in one session" request. 

As for the explanation on the algorithms used, Mabula did a write up in the release notes for 1.068:. Note the section on the difference with the AAD algorithm, even for color images. I have found with the STC-DUO in that going straight for a color output is an efficient route. It gives good star colors and good nebulosity colors. Only when you are dealing with significant OIII contributions, you would look at doing it manually. Simply because then you would want to increase the OIII signal in comparison to the HA signal, because the HA signal is so dominant.

Below the write up:

 

Astro Pixel Processor 1.068

These filters enable you to capture narrowband data from Hydrogen Alpha and from Oxygen III at the same time with a One Shot Color camera (OSC = DSLR or Astronomical Color camera) camera. The OPT filter has a bit broader bandpass so it also includes Hydrogen Beta which is close to OIII.

Since you will capture data, shot with these filters, with your OSC camera in the Red, Green and Blue channels, there are different ways to process the data. You can simply interpret the data directly as it is recorded in RGB (Ha-OIII color). You can interpret it as luminance data, so monochrome (Ha-OIII mono). You can even directly extract the Hydrogen alpha (Ha-OIII extract Ha) and Oxygen III (Ha-OIII extract OIII) data directly from these exposures, which will give you much more control in post-processing. The purpose of the new debayer algorithmes is to enable you to do this directly 😉 by choosing the suitable debayer algorithm:

The 4 new debayer algoritmes are:

  1. Ha-OIII color
  2. Ha-OIII mono
  3. Ha-OIII extract Ha
  4. Ha-OIII extract OIII

The Ha-OIII color algorithm is an improvement of processing data shot with these kind of filters, over the default Adaptive Airy Disc (AAD) debayer algortihm.

The OIII data quality and sharpness is the same, since the AAD algorithm is perfect for the OIII data that has data in both the green and blue channels.

For the Hydrogen alpha data however, the AAD algorithm is not suitable. The HA-OIII color algorithm will treat the Hydrogen alpha data totally separate from the OIII data and will therefore give a much better reconstruction of the Hydrogen alpha data versus the AAD algorithm. The noise in your H-alpha data will be much lower ;-). In integrations of several frames the Signal To Noise Ratio will be much higher as a consequence.


(@ahbok)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 24
August 19, 2019 23:36  

Thank you very much for this. I am primarily interested in combing NB data with the RGB data taken with my OSC. It appears that using the Ha-OIII color algorithm will be an efficient way to get the NB data  to integrate with my RGB data.


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