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2022-05-29: APP 2.0.0-beta2 has been released !

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Download links per platform:

windows 2.0.0-beta2

macOS x86_64 2.0.0-beta2

macOS arm64 M1 2.0.0-beta2

Linux DEB 2.0.0-beta2

Linux RPM 2.0.0-beta2

Software Problems and now Forum Issues


(@1cm69)
Red Giant Customer
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 133
Topic starter  

There seems to be a lot of ongoing problems with APP after reading through the forum, mainly Java errors by the look of it. These errors do not seem to be addressed in a reasonable time scale & many posts from users asking for help are going unanswered.

This is all a great shame as I do not want to see APP fall by the wayside but I think that it is a strong possibility as people cannot wait these long periods in order to get help solving a problem.

I understand that Mabula is having to do a lot all on his own and that APP has taken off in popularity but there is a limit to peoples patience when a percentage of their subscription for the software is slipping by because of the inability to use it, (user or software errors).

Now there also seems to be an issue with the APP forum where users are not able to add attachments to posts because the limit is set to MAX 30B. This has been pointed out in numerous post over the last few weeks with no answers from either Mabula or MODS, or even a fix.

Don't let APP die a slow and painful death....  


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(@oopfan)
Red Giant Customer
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 107
 

Successful business models are notoriously difficult for consumer software products. Some have flourished like INDI and others have died like StarTools. Many who start a business underestimate the cost of customer support. With just Mabula and Vincent there just aren't enough resources to give great customer support and new product features. Secondly, consumers are inflexible with respect to what they are willing to pay. Ideally there should be enough business income to hire customer support personnel, and for junior developers. In the absence of that companies must rely on a vibrant online community of users who are willing to help field questions and solve problems. Frankly, I don't see that here in the APP community. Lastly, you get what you pay for. People don't seem to mind paying a few thousand dollars for a university course that meets three hours per week for three months, yet the same people balk at paying a hundred dollars for software they use three hours per week, 52 weeks per year.

Just my learned opinion.

Edit: A friend who read this post added something that I forgot: Look at all the money you've spent on gear. $1000+ for a camera, $1000+ for a telescope, $1000+ for a mount, $1000+ for filters and accessories. Depending on your commitment, you probably have $5000 wrapped up in this hobby, at a minimum. Now compare that to what you've paid for software. What do you complain about most? Answer: software. How much did you pay for it in comparison to all your other gear? A drop in the bucket.


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(@1cm69)
Red Giant Customer
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 133
Topic starter  
Posted by: @oopfan

Successful business models are notoriously difficult for consumer software products. Some have flourished like INDI and others have died like StarTools. Many who start a business underestimate the cost of customer support. With just Mabula and Vincent there just aren't enough resources to give great customer support and new product features. Secondly, consumers are inflexible with respect to what they are willing to pay. Ideally there should be enough business income to hire customer support personnel, and for junior developers. In the absence of that companies must rely on a vibrant online community of users who are willing to help field questions and solve problems. Frankly, I don't see that here in the APP community. Lastly, you get what you pay for. People don't seem to mind paying a few thousand dollars for a university course that meets three hours per week for three months, yet the same people balk at paying a hundred dollars for software they use three hours per week, 52 weeks per year.

Just my learned opinion.

Edit: A friend who read this post added something that I forgot: Look at all the money you've spent on gear. $1000+ for a camera, $1000+ for a telescope, $1000+ for a mount, $1000+ for filters and accessories. Depending on your commitment, you probably have $5000 wrapped up in this hobby, at a minimum. Now compare that to what you've paid for software. What do you complain about most? Answer: software. How much did you pay for it in comparison to all your other gear? A drop in the bucket.

I did point out in my post that it was a great shame that things have seemingly stalled and the numerous posts regarding issues left unanswered.

I have been using APP on and off with some success for 2 years now & any failures have been 50/50 between user error & software glitches.

I take offence to the tone of the statement "What do you complain about most..." etc, here on this forum, yes as this is a forum for the APP software, if there is a problem with the software then it is here that I will let it be known.

If I have an issue with my scope, camera etc I will take that up with the manufacturer/seller of that product.

Please don't presume to know me.

At the end of the day, no matter what the product is that you have purchased, it has to be fit for purpose and before I get any nasty replies, this does not mean I think APP is not fit for purpose.

As you also point out, APP is relatively cheap compared to other software of it ilk but you cannot compare the price of software against the price of hardware, it's apples & oranges. How many people buy expensive cars then fit cheap tyres.

I did not have any input in to the price of APP, did I buy it because it was a reasonable price, sure, I'd be stupid not to when comparing it to the likes of PI it's a huge cost saving especially for someone starting out in the hobby.

I have seen many well regarding Astro imagers stick to just using PS & DSS for Integration & processing, DSS being Free & PS can be widely used for many other tasks besides astro work. These two together would almost definitely work out cheaper in the long run but it's nice to have a dedicated all-in-one application that takes the headache out of the process, this for me is where APP sits perfectly.

I have seen people rave over PI and watched many YouTube tutorials of integration & processing with PI and it's so labour intensive and the outcome is no different to APP. Yes PI has some useful tools up it's sleeve that would be nice to see added to APP in the future.

😉


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(@mabula-admin)
Quasar Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 3158
 
Posted by: @1cm69

There seems to be a lot of ongoing problems with APP after reading through the forum, mainly Java errors by the look of it. These errors do not seem to be addressed in a reasonable time scale & many posts from users asking for help are going unanswered.

This is all a great shame as I do not want to see APP fall by the wayside but I think that it is a strong possibility as people cannot wait these long periods in order to get help solving a problem.

I understand that Mabula is having to do a lot all on his own and that APP has taken off in popularity but there is a limit to peoples patience when a percentage of their subscription for the software is slipping by because of the inability to use it, (user or software errors).

Now there also seems to be an issue with the APP forum where users are not able to add attachments to posts because the limit is set to MAX 30B. This has been pointed out in numerous post over the last few weeks with no answers from either Mabula or MODS, or even a fix.

Don't let APP die a slow and painful death....  

Dear @1cm69,

I am actually working very hard to address the known issues and to uspcale our business. APP's userbase is exploding worldwide in the last couple of months so to suggest that APP is undergoing a slow and painful death is totally misplaced, really ;-).

In the past months, I have been working on a very big update as well, which will be released in due time... the fact that the new release takes a bit more time than usual is by no means a reason to think that development has stopped as you seem to think.

To state that the current release is just full of issues is also not justified. I can process so much data ( I have over 50 terabyte of testdata ) without ever running into an error. The errors that do exist are mostly the result of incompatible data being fed into APP like loading mono and RGB data at the same time or are related to new camera models like Canon DSLRs that now have sensors with uneven dimensions... and I am addressing all these problems for the next release.

Please realise that you only read about issues when browsing a forum, rarely will users post that the data processing went without issues, right 😉 ? At the moment, APP is being used by more than 200 people ! each and every day. If they all would run into issues at each data processing session, then why would APP grow so fast?

"Now there also seems to be an issue with the APP forum where users are not able to add attachments to posts because the limit is set to MAX 30B. This has been pointed out in numerous post over the last few weeks with no answers from either Mabula or MODS, or even a fix."

Indeed, i was not aware of this.. I have now set the upload limit for attachments now to 30MB. I think this happened about 2 weeks ago when the forum software was updated. Please accept my apologies for missing this.

@1cm69, I will do everything in my power to further improve APP and our support. Yes, we undergo growing pains and it takes time to address this, but we are definitely not dying here 🙂 so I hope that you can be a little bit more positive.

Kind regards,

Mabula


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(@1cm69)
Red Giant Customer
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 133
Topic starter  

@mabula-admin

Hi Mabula,

i think you misread my post, I did not say that APP undergoing anything, I actually said let’s NOT let it die a slow and painful death. Two completely different meanings. 

Neither did I say that the current release was full of issues, I said that there are numerous posts relating to java errors, which there are. Of course the OP may find a fix and never post back their findings but there are posts left hanging where the OP has asked for help and there is no follow up. 

This is where I worry about APP as prospective users will read through forum posts and unanswered help requests could form a bad opinion.

Believe me, I have no wish for APP to fail and I am truly sorry if my post came across this way.

😉

 


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(@vincent-mod)
Quasar Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4830
 

Woopsie, yes that's the problem sometimes with the written word. Still, I do agree on the lack of forum support lately. The team is indeed small still and it doesn't help that I'm traveling a lot lately. My sincere apologies for that as well.

However, like Mabula stated, the engine is running in top gear and I'll be settling down in a few months as well, making sure to have decent internet access in the mean time.


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