Help needed for workflow….

@takfsq85 Hi William.

It is possible to load all LP data into session 1 and all L-eXtreme data in session 2 and then let APP chuck away on it using the default values. Simply go straight to tab 6 and hit the integrate button. You'll end up with two integration results, one for the LP data and one for L-eXtreme. You can combine those in Combine RGB in the Tools tab.

However, you can also process the two data sets separately. In case of the L-eXtreme filter, using the Ha-OIII extract Ha and Ha-OIII extract OIII algorithms in tab 0, you can separate the Ha and OIII data. Then you can load the three integration results (one for LP, one for Ha and one for OIII) as lights in tab 1 (don't load any calibration data) and go to tab 4 to register them against each other. When done click the Save Registered Frames button. you can then load those registered frames in Combine RGB in the Tools tab and combine them using the RGBHOO formula.

It really depends on how you want to combine the data 🙂

@wvreeven 

hi, thanks for that..

so how many sessions can be added to one routine..?

Also would the same apply if all the data was the same, ie, same length subs, same temp, same darks but were taken with different LP filters so needed different flats…could they all be put in together or would they have to be in separate sessions as the flats would need to be with the specific lights…??

@takfsq85 All data can be put together provided they use the same calibration data, i.e. the same darks, flats and dark flats. If you need to load, for instance, different flats for data shot with the same filter (but for instance on different nights), then you'll need to split them into sessions.

By default APP supports 5 sessions but you can add more. I am not sure about the maximum amount of sessions. If you think you need many then you might consider processing one or a few sessions at once and, once all data has been processed, load all integration results for a particular filter as lights (without any calibration data) and integrate them. In that case, you could even load all LP integration results in one session and all L-eXtreme data in another session and integrate them. You'll end up with two final integration results, one for LP and one for L-eXtreme.

@wvreeven 

I only have three sessions on the heart nebula, but they were with different LP filters so have different flats, but want them all into one RGB image, so when it’s done the three sessions I will get 3 final images, then those three will have to be combined, is this done automatically, or do I do this manually…??

@takfsq85 At the top of tab 6 you can choose to have separate integration results for each session or to create one integration for all sessions or both. That is one possibility but be aware that that will treat the L-eXtreme data as "ordinary" RGB data. Like I wrote in my first reply, if you want to extract the Ha and OIII data and combine them manually, then you need to extract those channels like I wrote there. Again, it depends on what you want to do.

@wvreeven 

thanks much appreciated, what about the filter option above the session option on the same tab, what do I leave that on…?

@takfsq85 If you hover your mouse over the drop down (and in general over any element in APP) you get a popup with help. There it says you can choose to integrate all channels/filters separately, integrate them all into one result or both. In this case you want to have them integrated separately so you can combine them yourself. But feel free to select "both" so you can see the result that APP creates for you.

@wvreeven 

ok so if I just want to process the L Extreme data, I load the lights and assign them ha, use the Ha OIII extract Ha algorithm…? Or do i assign to RGB when loading…?

and then the same with the same lights again on a second run  but as OIII

 there is no way to add the same lights for both in one go is there…?

@takfsq85 Indeed, first you need to run with Ha OIII extract Ha and then with Ha OIII extract OIII. See my previous comments. Running them both at the same time is going to come in a future version of APP.

@wvreeven 

ok I have done that and got two mono images, do I then put them in the combine tool. If so,what settings do I use as I tried and just getting a black image…not sure I’d I am assigning them right, as when I add each one I get a box come up and done know what I should be selecting there…

I realise you are trying to help, but you are being very vague with instructions, as all these boxes that come up I need to know what to choose, it’s no good just saying run them through again……this is way there should be a manual……

@takfsq85 Again, it depends on what you want to do. Sorry for being very general. If you are clearer about what you want to do, I can give you clearer instructions 🙂

Assuming that you want to create an HOO image, you can select the HOO 1 or HOO 2 formula and then load the images. The difference is the amount of Ha that gets included in the green and blue channels of the resulting image. When you load the Ha image, you select the Ha channel in the popup that follows. When you load the OIII image, you select OIII. Next you click on the "(re-)calculate" button and you should get a colorful image.

Note that if you load unstretched images (as the integration results are), the result will be unstretched as well. You can double click the image you created in the Combine RGB tool in the files list at the bottom of APP so it opens in the image previewer. Then you can save the image with the save button to the upper right of APP to save a stretched version.

Once again, most tools have tool tips that explain how to use them, either shown in the tool itself (as is the case for the Cobine RGB tool) or when hovering your mouse button over parts of the tool.

A manual is missing indeed and is on the TODO list of Mabula.

@wvreeven 

first of all yes I am trying to create a HOO image from the L extreme data, I load the created mono Ha image into the combine tool, and then a box pops up with several options not just to choose Ha there are other options too, so i guessed on what to choose, and all I got was a blank black image with nothing….and then I had to move the red and green sliders on the left to get any colour, now this may not be the correct way….and what should those sliders be set too, 50% each..or…I have no idea as you don’t mention any of that at all…

this is what I mean, you seem to miss loads of steps out and assume, wrongly I might add, that I know what I am doing, I am new to this software and you are not, please remember that it comes as second nature to you, if there is no manual then someone needs to provide proper help with proper instructions and workflows….this is a joke asking here all the time and getting nowhere….

@takfsq85 Please moderate your tone. I am trying to help you as best as I can and need more detailed input to be able to do so. If you ask me specific questions, I can give you specific answers. Your questions so far have been very generic and I have tried my best to answer them as well as I can. Yes, I need to make assumptions there and sorry if those assumptions were wrong. Once again, be more verbose please and maintain a neutral tone. Thank you.

Regarding the popup you get when loading an image into the Combine RGB tool, it looks like this:

The "choose composite formula" box asks you to select the formula to combine all image with. As I explained before, you need to choose either HOO 1 or HOO 2 here. The "shot with filter" box asks you to indicate what filter was used. As soon as you have split the channels into Ha and OIII, you choose the corresponding value of Ha or OIII. The next line shows the channel (or filter which in APP is the same) that APP thinks the image was shot with. This is put there to help you determine what to choose in line 2. The rest is information to help you make a choice.

Is this the popup you were talking about? If no, please include a screenshot of the one you mean and describe in as great detail as possible what you want to ask about it.

@wvreeven 

Yes correct, thanks, do I add the OIII twice, for blue and green, or just once, ?? ok so after I have done that and I get to the next page and hit calculate, there is just a black image that comes up with nothing in it, the only way to get an image is to start messing with the sliders in the left side, is this correct,??  and if so what do these need to be set on 

I am trying to get a bi colour image with the rosette nebula and wanted a reddish outer for the Ha, with a light blueish centre for the OIII, but have no idea how to get to this…

@takfsq85 The OIII image only needs to be added once. So it seems like you are doing everything correct and I, too, don't understand why you get a black image. Would you mind uploading the Ha and OIII images to our upload server so I can have a go at it myself? See the "Upload server for upload of data issues" instructions at the top right of any forum page how to do so. Please create a folder called takfsq85_ha_oiii and put the files there. Then let me know when the upload is done and I'll have a go at it. Thanks!

@wvreeven 

ok, I figured it out I was mapping to red and green instead of Ha and OIII, so it’s worked now, but the image that comes out is identical to the RGB version, which I did not expect….🤔🤔

the sliders which I have no idea how to use again no manual to check to learn…😡 on the Ha one I shows as red is 100% and on the OIII it’s shows both green and blue set to 100%, and no matter how much I try and tweak them the image does not change, as the slide shows 100% even when it is set on say green 10 as soon as it’s above 1 it goes to 100%, so no idea where to go from here at all…..☹️☹️

@takfsq85 Good to see you're making progress. How to adjust to sliders to get what you want greatly depends on the data. The easiest way to show you is for me to use your data. So please upload the two files and I'll prepare some screenshots that show how to do this.

@wvreeven 

ok, both the Ha and OIII extracted fits files are in folder called Takfsq85 DATA 👍🏼

@takfsq85 Thanks though I did ask you to name your folder takfsq85_ha_oiii. I'll rename it for you.

@takfsq85 You indicated that you wanted to have a red edge and a blue center. With the two files you uploaded, this can be achieved by loading the Ha and OIII images into the Combine RGB tool and selecting the HOO 1 algorithm. As you wrote, the default result will generate a "normal" RGB image with a red nebula. This is because the Ha signal of the emission nebula in this case (and in fact in general) is much stronger than the OIII signal. So in order to get what you want, you can apply a multiplication factor on the OIII signal. This can be achieved by sliding the x slider of OIII to a higher value than 1.

and then clicking the calculate button. I experimented a bit with your data and found that values between 3 and 4 give good results. This of course is a matter of taste so you'll need to play with it. When you're happy, you can click the save button which gives this popup

You can and should leave all values at their default and it will create a 32 bit FITS image. Choosing a lower bit value will degrade the image quality. You can use this popup to export to a different file format, e.g. JPG, but you shouldn't do so until the very end to avoid image quality degradation. FITS is the best file format for astronomical images.

When you work with the x slider of OIII, you'll notice that a gradient arises in the background. This can be eliminated after saving the combined image by using the "remove light pollution" tool. You can exit from the Combine RGB tool by clicking the "cancel" button. Then open the "remove light pollution" tool and load the image that you just saved.

As you can read in the upper left of the tool, you are asked to drag boxes around areas where you want APP to take samples of the background to compute the background gradient. It is important to avoid dragging boxes where there is nebulosity! Simply drag small boxes along the edge of the image like this

and click the calculate button. In my case I get this:

The green boxes indicate that APP was able to use those areas very well, the yellow ones slightly less. But given the result, I'd say that the gradient was removed appropriately so that's the end of the use of this tool. If you're not happy then you can either remove the yellow boxes by clicking the "REMOVE YELLOW" button or add additional, small, boxes along the edge or slightly more inside the image to see if that improves the removal of the gradient. Once happy you click the "OK & SAVE" button which gives another popup where the only thing you can do is to click the "OK" button.

The final thing to do is to boost the colors in the image. To do so, enable the "neutralize-BG" and "saturation" check boxes to the right, like this

and click the "SAVE" button indicated by the arrow. This will bring up another popup:

where you can select the file format, e.g. JPEG:

That will allow you to publish the image on social media.

Note that all tools used here are much more powerful than indicated in these short instructions. I'd like to encourage you to experiment and see what certain sliders and drop downs accomplish. In any case, feel free to ask more questions here.

@wvreeven 

thanks very much, appreciate that, now that all makes sense to me, so I recommend you keep all that and add it to the upcoming manual….😉

one question, as you had already used the remove LP and gradient tool which sorts the background out, why do you use the BG neutralisation tool again at the end ??

@wvreeven 

also I assume that because you had to boost the OIII to approx 3x would 3x the amount of data to a similar thing, as that was just one hour there, 31 x 2 min subs….

or even with more data would the OIII still need the boost….?

Posted by: @takfsq85

why do you use the BG neutralisation tool again at the end ??

Good question. It is more a habit than a necessity. It depends on the amount of noise per color channel in the background and it makes the background more grey/black. You can try without if you want and see if it is needed according to your taste.

Posted by: @takfsq85

or even with more data would the OIII still need the boost….?

Unfortunately yes. It is the nature of the nebula to have a LOT more Ha emission than OIII. More data will reduce the noise in the image and it will boost the brightness of the OIII data but in order to get 3x more signal you'll probably need thousands of images. Not sure if you have the time to shoot those, even if my estimate is correct.

@wvreeven 

ok so no matter how much OIII I collect it will never show as the blueish colour naturally, without the boost…not even with just loads more OIII data and no more Ha, so really the blue colour I see in so many of these rosette images is false colour…? And not natural just by adding more data…

So what does the boost do, and how does it actually alter the colour to a more blue than pinky red…?

@wvreeven 

I just followed your steps exactly and mine does not come pit the same at all, forest of all when I save from the combine tool, and open again in normal window, it’s is more stretched, so I tried copying your settings on the right side exactly and the image is just white…I run the LP tool also and it makes it even more stretched after and looks nothing like yours…

the only way I can make mine look the same as yours with same histogram is to turn DDP off, when it’s on its way over stretched, it makes no sense, if I alter the ST slider to the same as yours it just goes white….

see settings in this screenshot, one is with DDP on and one is off, and notice ST settings, miles away from yours, and if I set to the same, then the image is white…

@wvreeven 

also when I get to this stage and have same as you, settings are all identical and image looks identical, then I click save, I get this box, and the defaults are different to what you said yours were….see here…why, as this may be the issue….but when I change to match your settings, I get all the issues in the next stages….🤔🤔

Sorted, I was using the SAVE button on the right side, and not the one in the combine tool, this should be made clearer, as I bet others will do the same, the other one should be disabled while using this tool….👍🏼👍🏼

Posted by: @takfsq85

Sorted, I was using the SAVE button on the right side, and not the one in the combine tool, this should be made clearer, as I bet others will do the same, the other one should be disabled while using this tool….👍🏼👍🏼

Hi William,

Just to add: if you save with the Save button below the histogram with the stretch selectbox enabled. The data is saved with that stretch in the previewfilter on the right side. If you save without stretch enabled. The previewfilter sliders are not applied to the data.

So if the data is still linear (not stretched) then try to keep it linear until you are completely ready with processing in all tools.

That way, you keep the most flexibility in terms of processing possibilities and thus you will be able to control the outcome better 😉

All the tools in the left side, will always save the data in the linear way, so it is best and easiest to save in the tool menu's themselves.

Mabula

@mabula-admin

Yes realise this, and usually do, but for some reason I was using the combine tool, and then saving using the left hand side save button, not sure why, but this screwed up what I was doing..all sorted now…thanks👍🏼