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Very basic problem with interface - AMD RYZEN incompatibility ?  

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(@bcolyn)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 10
November 15, 2020 23:30  

Hey @mabula-admin, did some further digging - hope this helps:

To rule out driver issues and to make sure:

  • I booted into safe mode and used DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller - a well-known tool for completely removing "leftover" drivers) to remove all display drivers from the system. Also disabled installing drivers from Windows Update.
  • rebooted into a display-driver-less and single monitor system. Still glitches (attach)
  • clean install of the latest nvidia driver. No joy 
Capture

Focussing again on the Java2D side and referencing this: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/10/troubleshoot/java-2d-pipeline-rendering-and-properties.htm#JSTGD438

  • I set environment variable J2D_D3D_RASTERIZER=ref, which gave me the Microsoft reference (software) renderer for direct3D - incredibly slow but it still glitched out when using the tooltip on the file open dialog to trigger it. 
  • Other suggested settings for J2D_D3D_RASTERIZER showed less of a performance impact, but still had the problem. To me, this indicates the problem is somewhere above the Direct3D layer (JDK, libraries or application)
  • I set -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true to force the opengl Java2D pipeline, with interesting results. The embedded image viewport had rendering artefacts when there was no image loaded but the rest of the UI didn't and worked fine. With an image loaded the UI behaved and performed well, but the top left button showed "CPU" indicating that the opengl rendering of the image viewer was somehow inhibited.

As intriguing as this problem is, I'd gladly live with the workaround if it gets us a "load/save files and settings" feature sooner 😉 

 


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(@bcolyn)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 10
November 15, 2020 23:44  
Posted by: @stephent

Hi @mabula-admin

Thought it worth repeating that with D3D enabled it took about a second to draw all the loading buttons in the left hand pane, in kind of a "ripple". With D3D disabled these draw instantly after the working directory is selected.

If this slow drawing of the buttons does not happen on your RTX laptops I'd suggest you won't be able to reproduce the issue. Not sure if relevant but I don't think desktop RTX and laptop RTX are the same GPUs.

Is everyone experiencing the issue using a desktop GPU?

I am happy to continue using the workaround if it can be demonstrated that integration time doesn't suffer with D3D disabled. Am sure you have more important things to be working on for the wider APP community.

Best regards

Stephen

@stephent all button-drawing is faster than I can see on my (desktop) 1070 GTX regardless of using the Direct3D pipeline or not. 

Most laptops have an integrated and a discrete GPU, with the discrete GPU rendering indirectly (via the IGP). On my laptop (which does not glitch btw, Intel CPU and 1060 GTX) APP uses the integrated graphics by default unless explicitly overridden in the Nvidia control panel to force the dGPU (the default IGPu works fine btw).

Disabling GPU acceleration for the UI (Java2D) does not impact the actual image processing speed, that happens purely on the CPU anyway.


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(@stephent)
Main Sequence Star Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 27
November 16, 2020 01:23  
Posted by: @bcolyn
Posted by: @stephent

Hi @mabula-admin

Thought it worth repeating that with D3D enabled it took about a second to draw all the loading buttons in the left hand pane, in kind of a "ripple". With D3D disabled these draw instantly after the working directory is selected.

If this slow drawing of the buttons does not happen on your RTX laptops I'd suggest you won't be able to reproduce the issue. Not sure if relevant but I don't think desktop RTX and laptop RTX are the same GPUs.

Is everyone experiencing the issue using a desktop GPU?

I am happy to continue using the workaround if it can be demonstrated that integration time doesn't suffer with D3D disabled. Am sure you have more important things to be working on for the wider APP community.

Best regards

Stephen

@stephent all button-drawing is faster than I can see on my (desktop) 1070 GTX regardless of using the Direct3D pipeline or not. 

Most laptops have an integrated and a discrete GPU, with the discrete GPU rendering indirectly (via the IGP). On my laptop (which does not glitch btw, Intel CPU and 1060 GTX) APP uses the integrated graphics by default unless explicitly overridden in the Nvidia control panel to force the dGPU (the default IGPu works fine btw).

Disabling GPU acceleration for the UI (Java2D) does not impact the actual image processing speed, that happens purely on the CPU anyway.

 

OK, apologies; my mistake... I thought this issue was limited to systems running NVIDIA RTX cards.


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(@tiku)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 11
November 16, 2020 14:26  

Hi,

Curiously enough, my GTX 1050 Ti laptop will not even start d3d mode and defaults always to software rendering (and has no issues, unsurprisingly).

@mabula-admin does your laptop actually run d3d renderer all the time and still work? Or does it silently drop to software renderer?

 


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(@vincent-mod)
Universe Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2871
November 16, 2020 16:04  

Just wanted to say, thank you all for being patient about this and giving such good detail in your own troubleshooting. This helps us a lot!


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(@tiku)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 11
November 17, 2020 18:35  

Hi,

After some testing, I think I'm perfectly happy with -Dsun.java2d.d3d=false .. no ill effects, everything working just fine and smooth. 

 


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(@rayschilkecomcast-net)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 22
November 20, 2020 20:13  

Mabula and Vincent

Guys after a week of processing and creating masters I am sad to report that the glitch does still occur. It only has been happening about every 5th use but always at the file load (Tab 1) and I have noticed that it does not seem to happen if I don't move my mouse fast or try to rush to add files. That may not be anything but it just seems that to get it to happen now I need to be adding files as fast as possible. If the "-Dsun.java2d.d3d=false " does work possibly I may need some information on how and where to enter that command. The glitch is nowhere near as bad but as I said I am sad to report it has returned. 

Ray


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(@rayschilkecomcast-net)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 22
November 20, 2020 22:15  

Dang I had to keep reading being nosy. One poster said that if while loading file he hit the details button in the upper right that he could replicate the error. Loe and behold I hit that button and the duplicate screens started again. Maybe that command line that Bcolyn found may be the answer for me as it was for him even though I do not have a Ryzen in my laptop. I would add it myself but don't know where to put it. A zoom or teamviewer use of my laptop would certainly be ok with me. 

Thanks

Ray


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(@bcolyn)
White Dwarf Customer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 10

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