Combine RGB Images/Frame size

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

I am relatively new to astrophotography and APP myself but was struggling with the same issue. Here is how I process and combine different images that are either part of a mosaic or were taken with different filters or in different sessions (resulting in an offset or rotation due to my portable setup) or with different binning / resolution. There probably is a better way to do this though...

• I load my stacked / (pre)processed images as "lights" and integrate them as usual. APP does all the alignments necessary during registration.
• This gives you a combined image for each channel / filter. Note that the individual images are aligned with each other, i.e. they will have the same overall size.
• Afterwards, you might combine e.g. individual channels (taken with different filters) using the "Combine RGB" tool.

Best regards & CS,

Erich

@dalepenkala Hi Dale, let me start with writing that there are no dumb questions!

In APP you can load the two integration results as lights and then go to tab 4 and register them against each other. When you load the lights you may get a popup warning you that these look like integrated results and asking you if you are sure that you want to load them. You are sure. Once the registration is done, you can save the registered results. Then you can load combine the two images.

Regarding the popup with the license code: what version of APP are you using? If 1.082 then please try 1.083-beta2 because with that version the popup isn't displayed. Check the DOWNLOADS ARE AVAILABLE HERE link at the top of each forum page.

Posted by: @eschreiner

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

I am relatively new to astrophotography and APP myself but was struggling with the same issue. Here is how I process and combine different images that are either part of a mosaic or were taken with different filters or in different sessions (resulting in an offset or rotation due to my portable setup) or with different binning / resolution. There probably is a better way to do this though...

• I load my stacked / (pre)processed images as "lights" and integrate them as usual. APP does all the alignments necessary during registration.
• This gives you a combined image for each channel / filter. Note that the individual images are aligned with each other, i.e. they will have the same overall size.
• Afterwards, you might combine e.g. individual channels (taken with different filters) using the "Combine RGB" tool.

Best regards & CS,

Erich

Thank you for the reply Erich, I’ll see if I can do this.

Dale

Posted by: @eschreiner

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

I am relatively new to astrophotography and APP myself but was struggling with the same issue. Here is how I process and combine different images that are either part of a mosaic or were taken with different filters or in different sessions (resulting in an offset or rotation due to my portable setup) or with different binning / resolution. There probably is a better way to do this though...

• I load my stacked / (pre)processed images as "lights" and integrate them as usual. APP does all the alignments necessary during registration.
• This gives you a combined image for each channel / filter. Note that the individual images are aligned with each other, i.e. they will have the same overall size.
• Afterwards, you might combine e.g. individual channels (taken with different filters) using the "Combine RGB" tool.

Best regards & CS,

Erich

Thank you for the reply Erich, I’ll see if I can do this.

Dale

Posted by: @wvreeven

@dalepenkala Hi Dale, let me start with writing that there are no dumb questions!

In APP you can load the two integration results as lights and then go to tab 4 and register them against each other. When you load the lights you may get a popup warning you that these look like integrated results and asking you if you are sure that you want to load them. You are sure. Once the registration is done, you can save the registered results. Then you can load combine the two images.

Regarding the popup with the license code: what version of APP are you using? If 1.082 then please try 1.083-beta2 because with that version the popup isn't displayed. Check the DOWNLOADS ARE AVAILABLE HERE link at the top of each forum page.

Hello Wouter,

Thank you for the “No Dumb Question” statement! I just feel dumb! 😆

Ok so I’m not actually following you 100% here so again sorry. When I load all my lights, flats, dark/flats & bias frames and check that all the settings in the tabs up to #6 (integrate) are set I hit Integrate. And at the end I save the results.  Are you saying that I have to do something different? Sorry I’m not following here. When my images are integrated they are different sizes so thats when I get the problems when I use the “combine RGB” tab in “TOOLS” menu tab.

Your more then likely right Wouter on the version. I think that I’m running the 1.082 and not the .081 beta version.
I’ll look at this and confirm!

I love APP, I know its more powerful than what I’m able to make it do so I’m trying to learn this better. I hope you guys can help me get thru to the point where I’m able to do this “combine” process, because I would like to extract Ha & OIII data and combine them with my RGB data for other images as well.

Please be patient with me 😊

Dale

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Posted by: @eschreiner

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

I am relatively new to astrophotography and APP myself but was struggling with the same issue. Here is how I process and combine different images that are either part of a mosaic or were taken with different filters or in different sessions (resulting in an offset or rotation due to my portable setup) or with different binning / resolution. There probably is a better way to do this though...

• I load my stacked / (pre)processed images as "lights" and integrate them as usual. APP does all the alignments necessary during registration.
• This gives you a combined image for each channel / filter. Note that the individual images are aligned with each other, i.e. they will have the same overall size.
• Afterwards, you might combine e.g. individual channels (taken with different filters) using the "Combine RGB" tool.

Best regards & CS,

Erich

Thank you for the reply Erich, I’ll see if I can do this.

 

Dale

Hello again Erich,

In rereading your comment/process thats exactly the process that I used however when APP is done with the final image integration these 2 separate images end up different sizes even though EVERYTHING was identical with the exception of switching the filters. Thats the only thing that ever changed in the process.

Once I have processed the L-Pro data that is saved.
Then I processed the IDAS data and that is saved automatically and from there I go to tools remove light pollution, calibrate star color (this is done with the L-Pro data as well) then attempt to do the RGB Combine and thats when I get the error.

I’m just guessing here but when APP processed the raw data it must shift the images during the alignment process enough to change the overall image size and that’s where the size problem comes into play.

@mabula if its a possibility maybe there is a way to add that somehow into the tools menu for an added feature??? Just a thought is all. I still love this software!

Dale

Posted by: @wvreeven

@dalepenkala Hi Dale, let me start with writing that there are no dumb questions!

In APP you can load the two integration results as lights and then go to tab 4 and register them against each other. When you load the lights you may get a popup warning you that these look like integrated results and asking you if you are sure that you want to load them. You are sure. Once the registration is done, you can save the registered results. Then you can load combine the two images.

Regarding the popup with the license code: what version of APP are you using? If 1.082 then please try 1.083-beta2 because with that version the popup isn't displayed. Check the DOWNLOADS ARE AVAILABLE HERE link at the top of each forum page.

Hello again Wouter

After reading the update info on the 1.083-beta2 I do have that version installed. Here is a screenshot of what I have.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dale

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Ok so I’m not actually following you 100% here so again sorry. When I load all my lights, flats, dark/flats & bias frames and check that all the settings in the tabs up to #6 (integrate) are set I hit Integrate. And at the end I save the results.  Are you saying that I have to do something different? Sorry I’m not following here. When my images are integrated they are different sizes so thats when I get the problems when I use the “combine RGB” tab in “TOOLS” menu tab.

There are two ways you can achieve this. The first way is what I reported in my previous comment. Load all lights, flats, darks, bias, etc for one filter (e.g. the IDAS NBZ) in APP, go to tab 6 and hit integrate. When it is done, repeat for the other filter (the L-Pro). Then do this next thing that I described in my comment: take the integration results from both filters (there should be one file for each filter) and load those as lights. Then go to tab 4 and hit register. Once the registration is done, hit the save registered files button and then use those two files in the Tools tab.

Or you can do the following: load all lights of both filters plus all calibration files, go to tab 6 and hit integrate. Then the two registration results are aligned and can be combined. You need to make sure that the lights and calibration files for each filter are assigned to a separate session. So, for instance, load the IDAS NBZ filter files in session 1 and the L-Pro files in session 2. You need to make sure that in tab 1 multi-session is enabled.

Sorry, I missed one step. The "combine RGB" tool requires you to have separate images for each color channel. You can do that by making sure that the "split channels" checkbox is ticked at the bottom of tab 2. Do that before going to tab 6. Then you will get 6 files: 3 images for the IDAS filter (one for R, one for G and one for B) and three for the L-Pro filter (again one for R, one for G and one for B). Then you can load them in "combine RGB" and you can load both B images for B, both G images for G and both R images for R. Note that if you follow the first way, you will need to load all 6 images as lights and then go to tab 4.

Posted by: @wvreeven

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Ok so I’m not actually following you 100% here so again sorry. When I load all my lights, flats, dark/flats & bias frames and check that all the settings in the tabs up to #6 (integrate) are set I hit Integrate. And at the end I save the results.  Are you saying that I have to do something different? Sorry I’m not following here. When my images are integrated they are different sizes so thats when I get the problems when I use the “combine RGB” tab in “TOOLS” menu tab.

There are two ways you can achieve this. The first way is what I reported in my previous comment. Load all lights, flats, darks, bias, etc for one filter (e.g. the IDAS NBZ) in APP, go to tab 6 and hit integrate. When it is done, repeat for the other filter (the L-Pro). Then do this next thing that I described in my comment: take the integration results from both filters (there should be one file for each filter) and load those as lights. Then go to tab 4 and hit register. Once the registration is done, hit the save registered files button and then use those two files in the Tools tab.

Or you can do the following: load all lights of both filters plus all calibration files, go to tab 6 and hit integrate. Then the two registration results are aligned and can be combined. You need to make sure that the lights and calibration files for each filter are assigned to a separate session. So, for instance, load the IDAS NBZ filter files in session 1 and the L-Pro files in session 2. You need to make sure that in tab 1 multi-session is enabled.

Sorry, I missed one step. The "combine RGB" tool requires you to have separate images for each color channel. You can do that by making sure that the "split channels" checkbox is ticked at the bottom of tab 2. Do that before going to tab 6. Then you will get 6 files: 3 images for the IDAS filter (one for R, one for G and one for B) and three for the L-Pro filter (again one for R, one for G and one for B). Then you can load them in "combine RGB" and you can load both B images for B, both G images for G and both R images for R. Note that if you follow the first way, you will need to load all 6 images as lights and then go to tab 4.

Hello Wouter

Ok so because I couldn't make anything else work for me I ended up doing exactly what your 2nd paragraph stated yesterday.

Or you can do the following: load all lights of both filters plus all calibration files, go to tab 6 and hit integrate. Then the two registration results are aligned and can be combined. You need to make sure that the lights and calibration files for each filter are assigned to a separate session. So, for instance, load the IDAS NBZ filter files in session 1 and the L-Pro files in session 2. You need to make sure that in tab 1 multi-session is enabled.

In the end I did get a final image but I thought I'd have to do it with the "RGB Combine" in tools to achieve this. Evidently I've been doing this correctly from the get go based on your 2nd paragraph statement. That makes me feel much more confident with my work flow!

Another question then for adding say HA or OIII data to an unfiltered image: Say I took an image of this same object without a filter and I want to just add an OIII channel to the image, the way I understand how I'd do that is process like you normally would for ALL the unfiltered frames. Then take the filtered data and use the "extract OIII" channel in the 0 tab at the very beginning and process that thru to intergrate and get the final image. Back in the "Unfiltered" image I'd use the "add RGB" tab and use the "add channel" option correct? My guess is that's where I'd have the problem again if the images are a different size. I'd be better off doing it the way you have described in the paragraph in red and the way I did my final image. I've attached the image for you to look at only because this was the data set I'm referring to with this post.

As for the license error I'm getting, I seem to get the error when I'm not online. If I'm online I don't get then code, kinda like what would happen when you do the 30 day trail. In my case I did that but purchased the software and when I updated the version I was able to use the software without being on line, however I get this error. If it happens again I'll do another screenshot and post it here so you can see what I'm seeing on my end.

Thanks again for all the help!

I don't know why but I can't attach the image. Its about 4mb in size but I'll try in a separate post here.

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Back in the "Unfiltered" image I'd use the "add RGB" tab and use the "add channel" option correct?

I don't think you have been doing this correctly to be honest. Where do you see the "add RGB" tab?

Posted by: @wvreeven

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Back in the "Unfiltered" image I'd use the "add RGB" tab and use the "add channel" option correct?

I don't think you have been doing this correctly to be honest. Where do you see the "add RGB" tab?

I may have misstated myself Wouter but this is what I'm referring to.

When APP is done with the integration and creates the final image to work on I go to the "tools" tab and do some work in there. (See 2nd screenshot) 

When I attempt to combine something I click on "combine RGB" tab. 3rd button UP from the bottom. Then it takes me to the next screen (1st screenshot) and I click "add a channel"  button under the "save" button. I add the files that I want and that's where I get the error that the image sizes are not the same.

@dalepenkala I think that you misunderstand what "combine RGB" is trying to do. It allows you to combine mono images that represent color channels into RGB images. This means that you cannot load RGB images like you are trying to do. This is why I wrote that you need to split the integration results into color channel images. Only then you can add them as channels in "combine RGB".

So, please follow these exact steps:

• Don't make any changes in tab 0
• Load the lights and calibration frames for the IDAS filter in tab 1 and make sure that you assign them to session 1
• Load the lights and calibration frames for the L-Pro filter in tab 1 and make sure that you assign them to session 2
• Go to tab 6 and click on the integrate button
• When done, restart APP
• Again don't make changes in tab 0
• In tab 1, load the two integration results (meaning one for the IDAS and one for the L-Pro filter)
• Go to tab 2 and click "create Masters & assign to lights". Yes you didn't load calibration frames but do this anyway.
• Then still in tab 2 enable "split channels" and then click "SAVE (calibrated) Light frames". In the save popup make sure to select 32 bit floats for bit depth.This will produce 6 images: 3 for the IDAS filter and 3 for L-Pro. Those images represent the R, G and B channels of RGB images that you just loaded in tab 1.
• Go to tab Tools and open "combine RGB"
• Now you can load the R, G and B channel images. Open the 6 images previously created and make sure that they get assigned to the correct color channels.

@wvreeven

Oh so then combine RGB is only for creating a colored image with the 3 separate channels. Not to add say an HA or OIII data to an ALREADY created RGB image then?

If I want to use the data to create the RGB image using an “Extracted OIII” channel how would that be done then?

Thanks!

Dale 

@dalepenkala I never said 3. I said mono images that represent color channels 😉

Yes, it also allows for adding Ha, OIII and SII but that process is, in your case, more complicated because you need to extract the Ha and OIII signal from the IDAS filter. So, let’s take it one step at a time and do this first. Once you have done that, we can see how to go a step further and extract the Ha and OIII and then combine that with the RGB from the L-Pro filter.

@wvreeven

Ok understood, yes I said 3 separate images but I understand they are “mono” images.

Ok I will do this here in the next day or two and will repost my progress for more guidance. 😊

Thank you for being patient with me!

Dale

@dalepenkala Meanwhile, here are the steps to extract Ha and OIII from the IDAS filter images and to combine those with the L-Pro images:

• In tab 0, select "Ha-OIII extract Ha" in algorithm
• Load the lights and calibration frames for the IDAS filter in tab 1
• Go to tab 6 and click on the integrate button. This will create the Ha integration result.
• Return to tab 0 and select "Ha-OIII extract OIII"
• Return to tab 6 and click on the integrate button. This will create the OIII integration result.
• Restart APP.
• Do not make any changes in tab 0.
• Load the lights and calibration frames for the L-Pro filter in tab 1
• Go to tab 6 and click on the integrate button
• When done, restart APP
• Again don't make changes in tab 0
• In tab 1, load the three integration results (meaning Ha and OIII ones for the IDAS and one for the L-Pro filter)
• Go to tab 2 and click "create Masters & assign to lights". Yes you didn't load calibration frames but do this anyway.
• Then still in tab 2 enable "split channels" and then click "SAVE (calibrated) Light frames". In the save popup make sure to select 32 bit floats for bit depth.This will produce 5 images: 2 for the IDAS filter (Ha and OIII) and 3 for L-Pro (R, G and B)
• Go to tab Tools and open "combine RGB"
• Now you can load the Ha, OIII, R, G and B channel images. In "combine RGB, select the RGBHOO formula. Then click "add channel" and load the 5 images. Then click "(re)calculate".

@wvreeven

Hi Wouter,

I’m sorry it took me so long to respond back, I got tied up with some things around here, But THANK YOU so much for the step by step workflow for this process! 😊 

Just having my coffee and plan to go to my office and try this out before taking my mom to dialysis.

I’ll give this a try and I’ll let you know how it goes for me. Hopefully I can do this without problems but if I have more questions I’ll be posting the for you.

AGAIN, THANKS VERY MUCH!

Dale

Hi Wouter,

Ok already a question. I notice that you say "don't change anything in tab "0", I normally use RGGB for the "pattern" It comes up "supported" as default when I start up APP. Should I use RGGB or just leave it as the "supported" for that setting and all the following restarts of APP? I'm also check marking the box "force bayer/x-trans CFA. I assume that I should check this as well?

Dale

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

The bayer or CFA pattern normally is embedded in the FITS files so you indeed should not change anything in tab 0. APP is capable of detecting the CFA pattern by itself.

Wouter

Posted by: @wvreeven

@dalepenkala Hi Dale,

The bayer or CFA pattern normally is embedded in the FITS files so you indeed should not change anything in tab 0. APP is capable of detecting the CFA pattern by itself.

Wouter

Ok thank you Wouter! I now have a computer problem that is stopping me from going further now so I’ll let you know how things work out once I get my computer back up and running!

Dale

@dalepenkala Dale and I have been discussing his data offline and I have created a workflow for him that I'd like to share here.

I followed the following workflow to extract al the color channels from your data and combine them again. Note that I needed to use APP 1.083-beta1 because of an issue with the star registration in 1.083-beta2.

This is the workflow I followed to get the IDAS Ha and OIII images:
1) In tab 1 load the 240 IDAS lights, the IDAS Flats, the 240 Darks, the Dark Flats and the Bias
2) In tab 0 for pattern select RGGB, enable force Bayer/X-trans CFA and for algorithm select Ha-OIII extract Ha
3) In tab 6 click integrate and provide the name for the object: Veil-Ha
4) In tab 0 for algorithm select Ha-OIII extract OIII
5) In tab 6 click integrate again and this time provide the name: Veil-OIII

Next restart APP because that is easier than clearing out all loaded frames. So, now we will do the L-Pro data as follows:
1) In tab 1 load the 180 L-Pro lights, the L-Pro flats, the 180 Darks, the Dark Flats and the Bias
2) In tab 0 for pattern select RGGB and enable force Bayer/X-trans CFA. You can leave the algorithm as is since the best one for RGB automatically gets chosen when APP is started.
3) In tab 6 click integrate and provide the name: Veil-RGB

Now that we have the Ha, OIII and RGB images, we need to do two things. One thing is to align them to each other and the other is to extract the R, G and B channel from the RGB image. The order in which these two things are done doesn't really matter. Once again, close and reopen APP. Then load the Ha, OII and RGB images as lights in tab 1. APP will state that these look like processed images and will ask if you are sure. Yes you are. Next, go to tab 4 and click "start registration". Once it is done, click "save registered frames". Make sure to save them as 32 bit float FITS files. Now the frames will be aligned to each other and will have the same dimensions. Close and restart APP again. Now load the registered RGB image as light. Go to tab 2, enable "split channels" and click "SAVE (calibrated) Light frames". Again, make sure to save them as 32 bit float FITS files.

Now your data is ready to be combined. For the last time, close and restart APP. Go to the tools tab and load the registered Ha, OIII, R, G and B files. Note that APP will not recognise what channels the Ha and OIII files are so you need to select those by hand. Make sure to select the RGBHOO formula and click the "new formula" button. Then click "(re-)calculate" and enjoy the result.

@dalepenkala I should add that this result can be improved. This can mostly be done by applying light pollution correction on the Ha, OIII and RGB files before registering them. Also normalizing them to each other in tab 5 right after registering the three files will help. I'll leave it to Dale to try this himself 🙂

@wvreeven

Hello Wouter,

Thank you so much for this! I will give all this a try based on this workflow! I do have a question though.

Your statement on tab “0” In tab 0 for pattern select RRGB

I’ve been using RGGB for my OSC camera as thats what I was always told the pixel structure is. Is this really what I should be using? So I should be using the RRGB and NOT the RGGB.

I’m going to mention something that Wouter and I talked about offline for EVERYONE to read/know and that is I didn’t realize that I should be using the FITS file structure for ALL my data and calibration files. I have been using the Uncompressed file TIFF. I always was told that this was the best file format to use because it was uncompressed data. This just shows you stupid I am with all this computer/tech stuff! In the end I’ll be reshooting ALL my calibration library in the coming days!

Again, I’d like to thank Wouter, for his patience here and offline as well as all of this information! It has taught me a lot!

I’m sure I’ll still have questions Wouter so I hope that I can still bug you once and a while 🙄

Now I have to put this all into practice!

Thanks!

Dale

Wouter, you mentioned you had to use the “beta1” because there is an issue with the star calibration part of beta2. I have noticed that when I use the star calibration the results are drastically different and in fact commented on this in other forums without any answers. Is this what your talking about in beta2 is the drastic color change to the image.

Thanks!

Dale

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Your statement on tab “0” In tab 0 for pattern select RRGB

I’ve been using RGGB for my OSC camera as thats what I was always told the pixel structure is. Is this really what I should be using? So I should be using the RRGB and NOT the RGGB.

Thanks for spotting that typo. I corrected it. It indeed should be RGGB.

Posted by: @dalepenkala

Wouter, you mentioned you had to use the “beta1” because there is an issue with the star calibration part of beta2. I have noticed that when I use the star calibration the results are drastically different and in fact commented on this in other forums without any answers. Is this what your talking about in beta2 is the drastic color change to the image.

 

Read my post again. I wrote that there is an issue with the star analysis. This is step 3 of the integration workflow of APP and is done automatically when going from tab 1 to tab 6 and clicking the integrate button. For me the star analysis and then the registration (tab 4) of the frames failed for all IDAS frames but these steps go OK when using 1.083-beta1.

I don't know about the color change that you are referring to. I posted my results of my workflow above and the colors look natural to me.

@wvreeven

Ahhh ok Wouter my bad, miss read your comment there, sorry!

Yes I agree the colors look very normal to me as well. I think I'm going to download the 1.083-beta1 just to have it in case I run into problems as you stated.

Thanks!

Dale